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exodus
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"potrta lublanščina" v medijih?
02.02.2005 at 12:35:07
 
Ne razumem, zakaj se v slovenskih otroških sinhroniziranih risankah uporablja "potrta ljubljanščina"? Tudi v filmih me včasih zmoti, čeprav razumem, da včasih ne gre drugače, da če uporabljajo slengovsko govorico (npr. kaki ameriški črnski gangi), da potem takoj navržejo pogovorno ljubljanščino, ki je pretežno značilna za mladež, starih tam od 10-30 let.  Pa dobro, to še gre nekako, ampak zakaj tudi v risankah uporabljajo taisiti jezik?

Tudi tukaj na Gapetu je podobno, recimo pri chatu imamo sobo "krneki", ki se mi zdi res grda spakedravščina slovenske besede, ki mi je pravzaprav tuja (lahko bi bila soba "razno", "drugo"). Ne vem, pač tako je, ampak se mi zdi škoda, ker se mi zdi, da slovenski jezik s tem nekako onečaščujemo...
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Petra.
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Re: "potrta lublanščina" v medijih?
Reply #1 - 02.02.2005 at 14:01:38
 
jojmene joj, le kam pelje ta svet...

kaj bo šele, ko bomo dejansko na čisto telepatijo preklopli......
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Re: "potrta lublanščina" v medijih?
Reply #2 - 02.02.2005 at 14:24:20
 
pestro bo pestro....

 +

 Petra. wrote on 02.02.2005 at 13:18:48:
maske pa padajo, padajo in se razkrivajo.... Wink Smiley Grin



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Re: "potrta lublanščina" v medijih?
Reply #3 - 02.02.2005 at 14:28:51
 
Osebno me naslov chat sobe ne preseneča, ker tudi sicer forum ne vsebuje določila, da naj bi pisali v čim pravilnejši slovenščini. To je dvorezen meč. Meni se je napr. težavno prebijati skozi določene prispevke- recimo titud piše na visoko abstraktnem nivoju, pa še včasih malo manj berljivo....gapeta pa itak težko razumem, ker mi te sorte ljubljanščina ni prav blizu...
ampak po drugi strani pa imam tudi sama zato večjo svobodo izražanja in lahko kakšen lokalni izraz noter vtaknem....
Saj dokler se razumemo in dokler je vsak pri sebi pismen (če se pojavi potreba)....do takrat je najbrž vse ok.



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exodus
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Re: "potrta lublanščina" v medijih?
Reply #4 - 02.02.2005 at 18:10:30
 
Lilith wrote on 02.02.2005 at 14:28:51:
Osebno me naslov chat sobe ne preseneča, ker tudi sicer forum ne vsebuje določila, da naj bi pisali v čim pravilnejši slovenščini. To je dvorezen meč. Meni se je napr. težavno prebijati skozi določene prispevke- recimo titud piše na visoko abstraktnem nivoju, pa še včasih malo manj berljivo....gapeta pa itak težko razumem, ker mi te sorte ljubljanščina ni prav blizu...
ampak po drugi strani pa imam tudi sama zato večjo svobodo izražanja in lahko kakšen lokalni izraz noter vtaknem....
Saj dokler se razumemo in dokler je vsak pri sebi pismen (če se pojavi potreba)....do takrat je najbrž vse ok.



Ja, se strinjam - saj tu ne gre za neki visok literarni krog, kjer bi morali paziti na pravopisne napake - glavno je, da se razumemo. Moti pa me to, da se na javnem mediju (tv nacionalki) govori tako "slab" jezik, predvsem v teh sinhroniziranih risankah... Potem ni čudno, da so otroci nepismeni...
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Re: "potrta lublanščina" v medijih?
Reply #5 - 02.02.2005 at 20:23:33
 
Ni sicer čist na to temo...pa vseen...Kar se tiče risank,sem jst osebno zelo negativno presenečena,kakšne risanke vrtijo današnjim otrokom po tv.Polne nasilja,tekmovalnosti,itd.(in lublanščine... Smiley).Moraš prov pazit,kaj bo otrok gledal.Včasih,se mi zdi,da smo imeli veliko boljše risanke.Je pa sicer res,da sem samo nekajkrat naletela po tv na risanko(na splošno ne gledam skor nič tv) in sem bila razočarana,tako,da obstaja možnost,da sem tiste taboljše spregledala.
A mi lahko kdo priporoča kako dobro risanko(lahko je tut iz preteklih časov in je zdej ne vrtijo več)-pa ne zame Wink,ampak nameravamo (upam,da bo čimprej ratal) kakega bebolinota...pa me tko mal zanima.
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Ljubezen vedno prevlada!
 
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Re: "potrta lublanščina" v medijih?
Reply #6 - 05.02.2005 at 01:55:54
 
picola wrote on 02.02.2005 at 20:23:33:
A mi lahko kdo priporoča kako dobro risanko(lahko je tut iz preteklih časov in je zdej ne vrtijo več)-pa ne zame Wink,ampak nameravamo (upam,da bo čimprej ratal) kakega bebolinota...pa me tko mal zanima.


Gustav.  8) Cheesy
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Če bi tisti, ki me obrekujejo, natančno vedeli, kaj si o njih mislim, bi me še mnogo bolj obrekovali.
 
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Re: "potrta lublanščina" v medijih?
Reply #7 - 06.02.2005 at 13:37:30
 
Quote:
Gustav.  8) Cheesy
D`Legenda  ...
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Re: "potrta lublanščina" v medijih?
Reply #8 - 24.02.2005 at 02:15:41
 
Shocked Shocked Shocked

...

...

http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,66671,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_4

The Web Not the Death of Language
By Kristen Philipkoski
Feb 23, 2005, 17:03

     


We love instant messenger for the little pleasures it provides: workday diversions, covert flirting opportunities, parental contact with an easy out.

But communicating using instant messenger, text messaging, even blogging are changing the way humans communicate. The technologies have opened up a whole new field of linguistic studies, and researchers say the impact will be as significant as the advent of the telegraph and telephone.

Traditional linguists fear the internet damages our ability to articulate properly, infusing language with LOLs, dorky emoticons and the gauche sharing of personal information on blogs. But some researchers believe we have entered a new era of expression.

"Resources for the expression of informality in writing have hugely increased -- something not seen in English since the Middle Ages," said David Crystal, an author and linguistics professor at the University of Wales at Bangor. He presented at the American Academy for the Advancement of Science annual meeting in Washington, D.C., by recorded DVD when the live feed failed.

At first glance, you might not expect Crystal to get excited about IM utterances. But from behind a long silver beard and coke-bottle glasses, his excitement is clear. The internet is getting more people to write, he said, and that's a great thing.


Some believe the informality of internet-mediated communication is causing the language to deteriorate.

"The prophets of doom emerge every time a new technology influences language, of course -- they gathered when printing was introduced in the 15th century," Crystal said.


But linguists should be "exulting," he said, in the ability the internet gives us to "explore the power of the written language in a creative way."

During a seminar on language and the internet at the AAAS meeting Friday, researchers presented their findings on internet communication techniques.

In the spring of 2003, Naomi Baron collected 23 instant message conversations from college students: nine between males, nine between females and five between males and females. She studied 2,185 total transmissions.

The results did not fit typical stereotypes, she found. They used few abbreviations, acronyms and emoticons, the spelling was reasonably good and contractions were not ubiquitous. Overall, the study suggested that conversing through instant messenger resembled speaking more than writing.

Had the study focused on high school students, the results likely would have been very different. For high school students, IMing is more like fashion. See Microsoft's latest cheat sheet for parents. But high school students are difficult to study because researches need informed consent from parents, who usually want to see the results.

The easier-to-study college students gave a more staid impression of IM communication. The average length per transmission was 5.4 words; 22 percent were a single word. Many were parts of sentences -- 112 included a conjunction, like this: "she's a phd student (break) and my TA," and 48 used a preposition, like this: "what are you bringing (break) on Saturday."

The college students used only 31 abbreviations specific to internet communication, 16 of which were "k" for OK. They used just 90 acronyms total, 76 of which were "lol," and they used just 49 emoticons, mostly smiley faces. Just 171 words were misspelled, and the students often corrected the spelling in a follow-up. When they could have used contractions they did so only 65.3 percent of the time.

Men were much more likely to use contractions, Baron found. She also noted that women took significantly longer to close IM conversations than males, and males were significantly more likely than females to break utterances into multiple IM transmissions.

Probably least surprising was the fact that 70 percent of college students who answered a questionnaire as part of the study said they were simultaneously pursuing other activities while they IM'd, such as listening to a media player, word processing, talking to someone in person, eating or drinking, watching television or talking on the telephone. The average number of IM conversations per student at one time was about three, the highest number being 12.


They had multiple conversations, they said, because of time constraints, and also because focusing on just one IM conversation would be "too weird."
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Re: "potrta lublanščina" v medijih?
Reply #9 - 24.02.2005 at 03:17:30
 
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1072-1493392,00.html

...

The Number's Up for the Idea That we Think With Words and Grammar
By Anjana Huja
Feb 23, 2005, 18:03



WILL make three attempts to divine your thoughts this morning. Guess 1: “I must get more done this week, else everyone will think I’m a slacker.” Guess 2: “I hope the person I’m about to topple on leaves at the next station so I can filch his seat.” Guess 3: “When is this writer going to get to the point?”


The point is that we seem to think in sentences. It is very hard to imagine thinking about anything without framing the thought in words. When I wonder whether I am having a bad hair day, my mind’s eye sees the phrase swimming in front of it. It almost comes to my lips. In fact, much of what I ponder slips into vocal form, an unfortunate trait that has occasionally led me to be less tactful than I would have wished. But this habit also seems to confirm Noam Chomsky’s thesis that we think in words and grammar. Indeed, there is evidence that the part of the brain that deals with language is roped in to assist with mathematical tasks, suggesting the overarching presence of linguistic ability in all things neural.

However, a trio of brain-damaged patients have cast doubt on this widely accepted theory. Rosemary Varley, from Sheffield University, studied three patients with severe aphasia, a type of brain damage that leaves its sufferers unable to handle grammatical rules and therefore unable to commmunicate verbally or through writing. For example, the patients cannot distinguish between “the boy chased the girl” and “the girl chased the boy”.

Dr Varley found that the patients could tell the difference between similar mathematical expressions. For example, they could distinguish between 30/90 and 90/30. They could also handle arithmetic inside brackets, such as (90 - ((3 + 17) x 3)), that resemble the clauses inside sentences. They could not, however, decipher the sentence, “the man who killed the lion was angry.” The patients could also read numerals, but not written numbers, such as “three”.

The results, published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, challenge the idea that language is the master ability required for all types of cognitive processing. The study also raises the possibility that aphasic patients could be taught a “words by numbers” language that would allow them to communicate with others.

# I HAVE often wondered what Uri Geller’s cutlery drawer looks like. I am not alone in pondering this. Richard Wiseman, a debunker of the paranormal, set up a study to look at whether psychokinetic metal bending ability — the ability to deform metal by thought alone — is all in the mind of the beholder.

He reports that if an audience is told that a spoon is bending, a high proportion of them really believe that it is, even when it isn’t. Professor Wiseman, of Hertfordshire University, asked two groups of students to watch a videotape of a “psychic” bending a key. The psychic was actually a magician who bent the key using sleight of hand. The video ended with a 60-second close-up shot of the motionless key.

One group was told by a voiceover that the key was still moving; for the other group, there was no voiceover. Forty per cent of those in the voiceover group said that the key was still bending, compared with 5 per cent of the other group.

Professor Wiseman and his colleague Emma Greening report in the British Journal of Psychology that “even a relatively small amount of verbal suggestion can cause a large number of people to confidently report a psychokinetic metal bending after-effect”. Even sceptics turned out to be suggestible.

The researchers conclude that eyewitness testimony about the genuineness of such phenomena is shaky and therefore cannot be used to support the existence of the paranormal.

# IF YOU believe the personal columns, every male is the proud owner of a GSOH. But what does it mean, exactly?

I’m afraid that Eric Bressler, from McMaster University in Ontario, brings bad news on the giggle front. Dr Bressler, who is studying the role of humour in sexual attraction, polled 150 students about what they meant by a “sense of humour”.

He found that, for a woman, a GSOH means someone who makes her laugh. For a man, it means someone who laughs at his jokes. It’s enough to make you gag.
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